I honestly felt fine as I was driving home. My ego didn't feel devalidated as I saw MMA pull at the very end of the night. He opened this black girl who turned out to be on vacation from Minnesota. He even gave me a ride to my car as part of his pull. I'll give him credit for wanting to drive me. I remember I said I'd just walk as it was only a few blocks but the girl strangely felt more comfortable with me being in the car for a few blocks that having me just wander off. This was as I had left the bar with that 2-set girl telling me not to touch her and Seagull seeming to be in a good set that I got busted out of.
Seagull claims I could have hooked up with that one girl but I honestly think my posts last night and my self talk has gotten me to the right place. Just last night, I might have beat myself up for missing out on this possible lay opportunity. I think tonight is evidence that I may have finally got myself into the right head space: sex is not a holy grail.
Sex is not something that's so far away that it seems impossible. That was true when I first started sarging, yet I somehow kept a positive attitude and was able to make massive changes in myself over the years with only blind faith pushing me forward. I think I recognize what I was writing about before: that unlike when I first started, I've actually had sex a bunch of times from girls I met through cold approach pickup. As I wrote last night, the two serious girlfriends I had were only possible because I learned this stuff.
I think the good responses I got tonight have convinced me that if I keep going out, I'm going to wind up having sex with an attractive woman. There's a decent chance that I'll even get a snowball effect out of that and I'll get multiple closes in a short period of time thereafter. Tonight, the attraction was there and the close opportunities were there. I just failed from a little bad luck and some bad tactics that I'm trying to figure out how to correct next time.
I also felt that for a lot of sets early on, I really did have it in my head that I have value and that I should expect that the girls are going to like me. I think what helped with this is just thinking about my positive attributes as I was driving to the club.
I watched this Jlaix video last night that recommended to a guy that he should put himself in some more situations where he's the center of attention and that will help his game. That clip helped me realized that I'm not giving myself enough credit. How the hell do I even let myself feel uncomfortable talking to a set of girls?
I don't need Jlaix's advice because I've been in so many of those situations from doing all the eating contests. I've been the center of attention of several fairly large crowds are various festivals over the years. I've been in contests where I pushed myself to the absolute limit and came out victorious. I've done the post contest interviews for media or in front of the crowd as I'm in that haze of victory and overeating.
RSD Derek talks about how I'm supposed to know the value I bring and again, I've been focusing too much on my deficiencies and not enough on all the good qualities that I have. He talks about how I'm supposed to be able to find reasons why she should chose me over all the other guys at the club. There are other guys that are of course objectively better, but I do myself a disservice selling myself so short in recent times.
I really don't feel comfortable talking about myself but I guess I need to write this down in this ego based way to just further ingrain the idea into my head. I'll even write it in the crude way that I know is going to make me giggle when I think about it:
If I ever have to ask myself why I'm deserving, I should remember that there aren't many guys in that bar, and often there aren't any of have felt that thrill of victory that I have in some of these eating contests. There are the easy contests where a few seconds in, I can see the look of utter defeat in my opponents. There are the more difficult ones where I've gone up against solid competitors, and even competitors that normally would beat me, yet I somehow came out victorious. I found that inner motivation to just push that extra little bit to get the victory.
That same inner drive was there last year when I did that crazy two month hour poker promotion. I played 18 hour sessions because I just wanted to prove to myself that I could drive myself so hard.
When I doubt myself, I need only think about those two things I just wrote about and that's not to mention the other good qualities I have that I didn't even write down here because I do feel uncomfortable listing my good qualities in a place that is accessible to the public. I really do believe in being modest, and I've proven that when I've done post contest interviews.
Derek and Jeffy have a good point that I need to remember about how they view pickup as marketing and not sales. The idea is that you aren't trying to sell a girl on yourself, you're supposed to just be putting out your brand out there and it's on her to recognize the value of what you're putting out there. They talk about how you shouldn't take rejection personally because whatever brand you're offering, if you do it right, isn't going to appeal to everyone.
I believe the analogy they use is that if you're brand is say Mercedes, you wouldn't get mad that someone doesn't want your brand. It has intrinsic value and Mercedes wouldn't worry if someone that wanted a Toyota Yaris doesn't want the Mercedes that you're offering.
I'll just close by writing that I think I can continue with this right attitude if I just remember the sex isn't some abstract thing that's never going to happen for me. It's happened in the past from pickup and if I keep doing what I'm doing and constantly work on improving, then it's inevitably going to happen again. Besides that, it's not some magical thing that's going to fix everything in my life. It'll be great and I'll feel more confident but there is no end game. If I just got laid, the next night, I'd still have to go out and start the night out just like I will tonight. Pickup is a lifestyle that I just have to stick with and I can have the life I always wanted. I also have to stick with work and exercise as those are important as well and there's no "solving" that part of my life either.
Saturday, June 30, 2018
Sober AMOGing
I probably could have just tacked this on the other post. I could have just skipped writing this post. Part of why I stopped tracking my nights is that this takes too much time. I suppose I want to continue as I realize I am getting value from doing this. I think about what RSD Derek says in this video from Vegas Summit where he talks about how one should analyze two hours for every one hour we're out in the bar.
AMOG:
This is just some dumb story, but it amused me how it ended.
There was this blonde on the phone and I came up and approached. I was just blabbering stuff at her and not even touching her. This guy in a Hawaiian shirt came up and said, "She's okay" and shoved my shoulder. He may or may not have been with her. This happened last week. Guys sometimes see me and they think they can get in by acting like a White Night. I sometimes just look like an easy target.
Now I can just walk away but I make an effort to prolong these confrontations for two reasons. First, I trust in my ability to get out of them as I've done so successfully many times in the past, in even more precarious situations than this one. Second, and I've mentioned this in the past, I admit that part of me remembers how I used to let guys pick on me in high school. Now that I'm more confident in myself, I like to fight back a little bit. I'm talking verbally and I mean standing up for myself. I don't mean actually initiating an actual fist fight because that's just stupid. Besides the legal ramifications and possible physical injuries, it's just stupid because I'm trying to pick up girls and getting in a fight gives me no chance to do that and ruins possible chances for the rest of the night (I'm not like that guy in Tahoe that I've written about that got punched in the face and wanted to go back to the bar because he wasn't even phased by it.)
I also don't want to walk away because the guy physically touched me. It's not okay for some random asshole to physically assault me and I make sure to let them know that.
Here's the rant I went on. I learned from my AC set to be calm and not raise my voice. I also was completely sober so in better control of my emotions. I said something like the following:
Oh, I get it man. You're trying to be a white knight. Great man, good moves. You probably don't even know this girl. First of all, you don't get to touch me. I'm not moving. I'm standing here. I'm not talking to her or touching her. I get it though, you gotta prove yourself. Next, you're gonna ask me to do a one arm push up contest (an old Tyler AMOG line).
This guy just sat there not saying anything. I realized that I was actually looking dumb at this point because I was investing too much into this. I could have simply just said that he's not allowed to touch me and make a joke about the white knight move.
I think he handled me properly except for the initial shove. I think I gained respect for the dude because him not saying anything made me realize I was overdoing it. I remember that I realized I was overdoing it so I just laughed. I put my arm on him and said, "Have a nice night man."
I walked by later and he actually did know the girl.
It's good to be sober:
That little confrontation made me realize that I like being sober. I noticed that besides that set, I was more willing to talk to girls that had guys around. Being sober helps because I know I'll have my full faculties to verbally deescalate any potential problems. Worst case scenario, me being sober gives me an advantage on any drunk guys that actually want to physically escalate.
Also, because I've been going out and finding myself in a few of these AMOG confrontations, I'm getting more comfortable with these situations again.
That's good because I shouldn't be afraid to approach sets with guys in them. It's just when I'm not going out regularly, I don't feel as confident in my abilities to deal with issues.
AMOG:
This is just some dumb story, but it amused me how it ended.
There was this blonde on the phone and I came up and approached. I was just blabbering stuff at her and not even touching her. This guy in a Hawaiian shirt came up and said, "She's okay" and shoved my shoulder. He may or may not have been with her. This happened last week. Guys sometimes see me and they think they can get in by acting like a White Night. I sometimes just look like an easy target.
Now I can just walk away but I make an effort to prolong these confrontations for two reasons. First, I trust in my ability to get out of them as I've done so successfully many times in the past, in even more precarious situations than this one. Second, and I've mentioned this in the past, I admit that part of me remembers how I used to let guys pick on me in high school. Now that I'm more confident in myself, I like to fight back a little bit. I'm talking verbally and I mean standing up for myself. I don't mean actually initiating an actual fist fight because that's just stupid. Besides the legal ramifications and possible physical injuries, it's just stupid because I'm trying to pick up girls and getting in a fight gives me no chance to do that and ruins possible chances for the rest of the night (I'm not like that guy in Tahoe that I've written about that got punched in the face and wanted to go back to the bar because he wasn't even phased by it.)
I also don't want to walk away because the guy physically touched me. It's not okay for some random asshole to physically assault me and I make sure to let them know that.
Here's the rant I went on. I learned from my AC set to be calm and not raise my voice. I also was completely sober so in better control of my emotions. I said something like the following:
Oh, I get it man. You're trying to be a white knight. Great man, good moves. You probably don't even know this girl. First of all, you don't get to touch me. I'm not moving. I'm standing here. I'm not talking to her or touching her. I get it though, you gotta prove yourself. Next, you're gonna ask me to do a one arm push up contest (an old Tyler AMOG line).
This guy just sat there not saying anything. I realized that I was actually looking dumb at this point because I was investing too much into this. I could have simply just said that he's not allowed to touch me and make a joke about the white knight move.
I think he handled me properly except for the initial shove. I think I gained respect for the dude because him not saying anything made me realize I was overdoing it. I remember that I realized I was overdoing it so I just laughed. I put my arm on him and said, "Have a nice night man."
I walked by later and he actually did know the girl.
It's good to be sober:
That little confrontation made me realize that I like being sober. I noticed that besides that set, I was more willing to talk to girls that had guys around. Being sober helps because I know I'll have my full faculties to verbally deescalate any potential problems. Worst case scenario, me being sober gives me an advantage on any drunk guys that actually want to physically escalate.
Also, because I've been going out and finding myself in a few of these AMOG confrontations, I'm getting more comfortable with these situations again.
That's good because I shouldn't be afraid to approach sets with guys in them. It's just when I'm not going out regularly, I don't feel as confident in my abilities to deal with issues.
Pull chances & bad tactics
Let me start by saying that I guess writing in here does help me progress and that's why I'm back again here 24 hours later.
Tonight, it felt like so much happened in so little time. I started late as I scooped up Seagull from the airport. My easy parking spot by his house was gone which actually turned out to be a blessing. I had planned on a quick three drink cheat code sequence at his place but I abandoned the idea when I was forced to park closer to the bar.
This was the first time I really gave a full effort completely sober and I was reminded of the benefits of going out completely sober. Having warmed up yesterday and being committed to doing things better tonight, I jumped right in without that little period of hesitation and self doubt. Having a few drinks helps circumvent this completely on days when I'm not already starting somewhat in the zone. I also notice that being drunk helps me on the dance floor because I really let loose more. Tonight, I proved that I can still have good enough confidence and moves on the dance floor.
Dance floor girl:
I think my first real chance was this cute blonde on the dance floor. I actually wish I could remember exactly how I started things because I sometimes do feel like I don't have opening on the dance floor internalized. I think this was just one of those situation where I was moving and having enough fun that when I made eye contact with her, she just started dancing with me. I remember pulling her in and spinning her around: the standard moves. She seemed high buying temperature but I remember the friend seemed colder. She was on the phone and she didn't respond well to MMA. Later, I saw her all friendly with some other guy that busted out.
I probably missed a chance by not going back in again. While it may not be ideal that the friend doesn't like my wing or doesn't seem high buying temperature, perhaps, I should have forced myself to go in and try to make this close happen. At the very least, I could have gone in again and screened her for logistics and maybe tried some more kino escalation to see if she really would be down for leaving with me.
The pulls aren't always going to be easy and I remember that I just recently watched an RSD video talking about how it's good to recognize that some pulls are going to be awkward and rough. It's not good to be a one trick pony and just get quick pulls that go smoothly.
Street dancing:
As much as I did approach early on, I failed to go into this set at the same bar as the previous dance floor girl. Seagull had gone in and MMA had as well. I think my issue is the pale girl that I was interested in was talking to some guy the whole time. I admit I chickened out with this petite blonde in that group for whatever reason. Normally, I'd beat myself up for not having tried but I'm trying to be positive. Realistically, I can't hold myself to the standard that I'm going to open every single set. It's not like I wasn't trying some other angles at the time.
It worked out anyway as there was this other friend that I hadn't seen inside the bar but showed up outside. The set ended up being one guy and like 5-6 girls. I believe they were Irish. This one thin brunette was super high energy and I started dancing with her on the street. She was high buying temperature and I almost got her to walk away with me for tacos. I got like 5-10 feet away and then I think one of her friend's got her attention.
I had this moment where Seagull was talking to some PUA guy he recognized. I knew the three girls were about to get an Uber , so I tried to pull MMA back into the set.
Don't waste time arguing:
My girl recognized MMA from the bar. I had seen him open this other blonde friend of there's. My girl had bad memories of MMA because she started arguing with him about how he was talking to her other friend. Rather that just ignoring it or changing the subject, he started arguing with her and that ruined the set. While that BS was going on, the friend called an Uber. They must have lived far away because I heard her say she was sending them the Uber split for the $30 ride. A $30 ride might go all the way to the airport so they must live like 20-30 minutes away.
I tried to change the subject and end the stupid debate that was going on. Ultimately, I ended up giving up as I knew the Uber was coming and the arguing seemed to ruin the mood.
I'll just close by saying that I caught myself arguing with a girl and then mid argument, I even verbalized, "Why am I wasting my time arguing? This is stupid."
I had opened these two blondes and one asked me which was "Division" was, which is this shitty strip of late night bars in Chicago. I told them that they should go elsewhere as that place was shitty. A few minutes later, I saw them again and opened with, "Are you guys still looking for Division? Seriously, don't go there."
One girl just started going off on me telling me to go away. I think I said, "Okay, that's fine, but seriously, you're not going to like those bars." She then went off some more with some nonsense I barely remember.
The friend started defending me and actually reached towards me to grab my arm. She was saying something like, "You're not doing anything wrong." She started telling the friend that I'm nice, etc.
The other girl said, "She's drunk, she doesn't know what she's saying." She might have had a few drunks but she wasn't sloshed.
I argued for a sentence more and then I stopped myself as I said above, "Why am I even wasting my time arguing? This is stupid! I have 30 minutes left" and I left.
You can close this girl:
As I was typing this, Seagull messaged me wanted to talk about this stupid 2-set that he opened on the street. I was in MMA's car as he was going to drive us to the after hours bar. We tried to get them to hop in, but they weren't comfortable so I hopped out. I started talking to the cuter one and we walked towards the bar.
I was having an interesting conversation. It was similar to one I had earlier with this girl in some giant set Seagull had moved prior to this. My target was walking with me and investing in the conversation. At some point, before the bar, I saw her change her stride and pull away from me. I want to say it was when I talked about not wanting to get married and staying single or some topic like that.
We got to the bar, and my target was on the phone. The two girls walked away a little bit and Seagull and I opened these two Irish girls that were sitting outside the bar. We had a good conversation going but the girls wanted to go back inside. In retrospect, I should have anticipated that this would happen and lead them inside, or I should have made it look like my idea to go back inside.
The original 2-set had come back in and we went inside. I remember that Seagull went to the bathroom so I just babbled about something while he was gone. Mine like the song that was playing and I tried to get her to dance. That didn't work.
Later, they wandered off. Seagull said they went to the washroom. They came back out and were in the back. Seagull took this opportunity to tell me that he felt I could hook up with this girl if we went back in. He didn't like the girl he wasn't talking to and mine honestly wasn't attractive enough for him. She had a cute face but my options earlier were better.
I didn't want to go back in because I didn't feel like I was clicking with my target. At the time he was pushing me go in, guys were talking to them as well. My worst scenario was going back in like he suggested and busting out in front of competing guys.
On the one hand, he had a point when he said that I specifically said at the beginning of the night that I recognized I wasn't sticking in sets long enough and I had said I was going to make a effort to stick in longer. Perhaps, I did fail here and I failed with that blonde on the dance floor. On the other hand, I did see how the dynamics changed while we were still walking to the bar.
As I expected:
So, finally I convince him that we're not going back. He opens these 4 Irish girls and he really hooks this one girl. I try to go in and I have the attention of one but I didn't really have it hooked. To my credit, after standing for a minute closed out of the set, I tried to force myself back in. It didn't seem to work so I left and just started talking to random people.
Later, I saw the original 2-set alone at the other end of the bar. I went back in. I probably didn't do the kino right when I went back in. When I reported what happened, he said I went from no kino to trying to touch her. I'm not even sure about that. I think I tried to get her attention by touching her arm and she freaked out.
I don't even like writing about this shit because these bad reactions stick in my head and these are why I often fail to escalate on girls that actually do like me and that want me to touch them. She said, "Don't touch me. Give me some personal space here" and she made a circle motion.
I responded, "Sorry, I was just trying to your attention." When she did the circle motion, I just said, "Okay, whatever, have fun you guys" and left.
Honestly, I don't know if Seagull was right or if this would have been the result regardless. Maybe because I wanted to prove a point, I tried to touch her in a creepy way just so I could prove myself to be right. Maybe us wandering off and not staying with them the entire time was the problem.
Why are you not kinoing these girls:
That was Seagull's question as when he messaged me, he wanted to discuss this set. He said he kept thing going in this set because he wanted to help me get laid. I do appreciate his effort and he's done this for another wing of ours. I think it's amusing in a way, because he failed to do this three weeks ago with that tall brunette at this house. That I've brought that up several times since is probably why he wanted to make an extra effort to help me this time. I'll make sure to again express my gratitude at the effort when I see him Saturday night.
My initial response to Seagull was very defensive. I have to admit that this is a weak point in my game, but my kino was good with that one Irish girl that I was dancing with on the street. I did realize that he didn't see the two dance floor sets I wrote about in this blog. What he saw was me with this 2-set and when I was walking with this other girl.
I didn't do anything in those sets so I shouldn't be surprised that his view is that my default state is not touching girls.
I did recognize that I do have to work on kino with sets that he opened that I join in on. I have to admit that I feel weird as I just came into the set so I don't feel comfortable touch the girl in his set. The solution is what I remember from the old PUA stuff about kino: I have to establish myself as a guy that uses kino with everyone. The way to describe it is maybe to think of a stereotypical Italian guy that touches guys and girls when he talks. I remember that I'm supposed to establish that I'm a kino type of guy early on, even one minute into the interaction. This doesn't mean groping, but just some light friendly touches to establish that I'm that type of guy.
I think there is a difference when I open the set and I see that I've hooked it myself. It's different when I'm talking to the girl and I can see that the eye contact is strong and that she's into me. Still, I need to get the lesson I wrote about in the previous paragraph and work on doing better when I come wing Seagull on his sets. It makes sense that this criticism sticks in his mind because looking back, it seems pretty standard for me to do almost zero kino in sets of his that I've joined.
Tonight, it felt like so much happened in so little time. I started late as I scooped up Seagull from the airport. My easy parking spot by his house was gone which actually turned out to be a blessing. I had planned on a quick three drink cheat code sequence at his place but I abandoned the idea when I was forced to park closer to the bar.
This was the first time I really gave a full effort completely sober and I was reminded of the benefits of going out completely sober. Having warmed up yesterday and being committed to doing things better tonight, I jumped right in without that little period of hesitation and self doubt. Having a few drinks helps circumvent this completely on days when I'm not already starting somewhat in the zone. I also notice that being drunk helps me on the dance floor because I really let loose more. Tonight, I proved that I can still have good enough confidence and moves on the dance floor.
Dance floor girl:
I think my first real chance was this cute blonde on the dance floor. I actually wish I could remember exactly how I started things because I sometimes do feel like I don't have opening on the dance floor internalized. I think this was just one of those situation where I was moving and having enough fun that when I made eye contact with her, she just started dancing with me. I remember pulling her in and spinning her around: the standard moves. She seemed high buying temperature but I remember the friend seemed colder. She was on the phone and she didn't respond well to MMA. Later, I saw her all friendly with some other guy that busted out.
I probably missed a chance by not going back in again. While it may not be ideal that the friend doesn't like my wing or doesn't seem high buying temperature, perhaps, I should have forced myself to go in and try to make this close happen. At the very least, I could have gone in again and screened her for logistics and maybe tried some more kino escalation to see if she really would be down for leaving with me.
The pulls aren't always going to be easy and I remember that I just recently watched an RSD video talking about how it's good to recognize that some pulls are going to be awkward and rough. It's not good to be a one trick pony and just get quick pulls that go smoothly.
Street dancing:
As much as I did approach early on, I failed to go into this set at the same bar as the previous dance floor girl. Seagull had gone in and MMA had as well. I think my issue is the pale girl that I was interested in was talking to some guy the whole time. I admit I chickened out with this petite blonde in that group for whatever reason. Normally, I'd beat myself up for not having tried but I'm trying to be positive. Realistically, I can't hold myself to the standard that I'm going to open every single set. It's not like I wasn't trying some other angles at the time.
It worked out anyway as there was this other friend that I hadn't seen inside the bar but showed up outside. The set ended up being one guy and like 5-6 girls. I believe they were Irish. This one thin brunette was super high energy and I started dancing with her on the street. She was high buying temperature and I almost got her to walk away with me for tacos. I got like 5-10 feet away and then I think one of her friend's got her attention.
I had this moment where Seagull was talking to some PUA guy he recognized. I knew the three girls were about to get an Uber , so I tried to pull MMA back into the set.
Don't waste time arguing:
My girl recognized MMA from the bar. I had seen him open this other blonde friend of there's. My girl had bad memories of MMA because she started arguing with him about how he was talking to her other friend. Rather that just ignoring it or changing the subject, he started arguing with her and that ruined the set. While that BS was going on, the friend called an Uber. They must have lived far away because I heard her say she was sending them the Uber split for the $30 ride. A $30 ride might go all the way to the airport so they must live like 20-30 minutes away.
I tried to change the subject and end the stupid debate that was going on. Ultimately, I ended up giving up as I knew the Uber was coming and the arguing seemed to ruin the mood.
I'll just close by saying that I caught myself arguing with a girl and then mid argument, I even verbalized, "Why am I wasting my time arguing? This is stupid."
I had opened these two blondes and one asked me which was "Division" was, which is this shitty strip of late night bars in Chicago. I told them that they should go elsewhere as that place was shitty. A few minutes later, I saw them again and opened with, "Are you guys still looking for Division? Seriously, don't go there."
One girl just started going off on me telling me to go away. I think I said, "Okay, that's fine, but seriously, you're not going to like those bars." She then went off some more with some nonsense I barely remember.
The friend started defending me and actually reached towards me to grab my arm. She was saying something like, "You're not doing anything wrong." She started telling the friend that I'm nice, etc.
The other girl said, "She's drunk, she doesn't know what she's saying." She might have had a few drunks but she wasn't sloshed.
I argued for a sentence more and then I stopped myself as I said above, "Why am I even wasting my time arguing? This is stupid! I have 30 minutes left" and I left.
You can close this girl:
As I was typing this, Seagull messaged me wanted to talk about this stupid 2-set that he opened on the street. I was in MMA's car as he was going to drive us to the after hours bar. We tried to get them to hop in, but they weren't comfortable so I hopped out. I started talking to the cuter one and we walked towards the bar.
I was having an interesting conversation. It was similar to one I had earlier with this girl in some giant set Seagull had moved prior to this. My target was walking with me and investing in the conversation. At some point, before the bar, I saw her change her stride and pull away from me. I want to say it was when I talked about not wanting to get married and staying single or some topic like that.
We got to the bar, and my target was on the phone. The two girls walked away a little bit and Seagull and I opened these two Irish girls that were sitting outside the bar. We had a good conversation going but the girls wanted to go back inside. In retrospect, I should have anticipated that this would happen and lead them inside, or I should have made it look like my idea to go back inside.
The original 2-set had come back in and we went inside. I remember that Seagull went to the bathroom so I just babbled about something while he was gone. Mine like the song that was playing and I tried to get her to dance. That didn't work.
Later, they wandered off. Seagull said they went to the washroom. They came back out and were in the back. Seagull took this opportunity to tell me that he felt I could hook up with this girl if we went back in. He didn't like the girl he wasn't talking to and mine honestly wasn't attractive enough for him. She had a cute face but my options earlier were better.
I didn't want to go back in because I didn't feel like I was clicking with my target. At the time he was pushing me go in, guys were talking to them as well. My worst scenario was going back in like he suggested and busting out in front of competing guys.
On the one hand, he had a point when he said that I specifically said at the beginning of the night that I recognized I wasn't sticking in sets long enough and I had said I was going to make a effort to stick in longer. Perhaps, I did fail here and I failed with that blonde on the dance floor. On the other hand, I did see how the dynamics changed while we were still walking to the bar.
As I expected:
So, finally I convince him that we're not going back. He opens these 4 Irish girls and he really hooks this one girl. I try to go in and I have the attention of one but I didn't really have it hooked. To my credit, after standing for a minute closed out of the set, I tried to force myself back in. It didn't seem to work so I left and just started talking to random people.
Later, I saw the original 2-set alone at the other end of the bar. I went back in. I probably didn't do the kino right when I went back in. When I reported what happened, he said I went from no kino to trying to touch her. I'm not even sure about that. I think I tried to get her attention by touching her arm and she freaked out.
I don't even like writing about this shit because these bad reactions stick in my head and these are why I often fail to escalate on girls that actually do like me and that want me to touch them. She said, "Don't touch me. Give me some personal space here" and she made a circle motion.
I responded, "Sorry, I was just trying to your attention." When she did the circle motion, I just said, "Okay, whatever, have fun you guys" and left.
Honestly, I don't know if Seagull was right or if this would have been the result regardless. Maybe because I wanted to prove a point, I tried to touch her in a creepy way just so I could prove myself to be right. Maybe us wandering off and not staying with them the entire time was the problem.
Why are you not kinoing these girls:
That was Seagull's question as when he messaged me, he wanted to discuss this set. He said he kept thing going in this set because he wanted to help me get laid. I do appreciate his effort and he's done this for another wing of ours. I think it's amusing in a way, because he failed to do this three weeks ago with that tall brunette at this house. That I've brought that up several times since is probably why he wanted to make an extra effort to help me this time. I'll make sure to again express my gratitude at the effort when I see him Saturday night.
My initial response to Seagull was very defensive. I have to admit that this is a weak point in my game, but my kino was good with that one Irish girl that I was dancing with on the street. I did realize that he didn't see the two dance floor sets I wrote about in this blog. What he saw was me with this 2-set and when I was walking with this other girl.
I didn't do anything in those sets so I shouldn't be surprised that his view is that my default state is not touching girls.
I did recognize that I do have to work on kino with sets that he opened that I join in on. I have to admit that I feel weird as I just came into the set so I don't feel comfortable touch the girl in his set. The solution is what I remember from the old PUA stuff about kino: I have to establish myself as a guy that uses kino with everyone. The way to describe it is maybe to think of a stereotypical Italian guy that touches guys and girls when he talks. I remember that I'm supposed to establish that I'm a kino type of guy early on, even one minute into the interaction. This doesn't mean groping, but just some light friendly touches to establish that I'm that type of guy.
I think there is a difference when I open the set and I see that I've hooked it myself. It's different when I'm talking to the girl and I can see that the eye contact is strong and that she's into me. Still, I need to get the lesson I wrote about in the previous paragraph and work on doing better when I come wing Seagull on his sets. It makes sense that this criticism sticks in his mind because looking back, it seems pretty standard for me to do almost zero kino in sets of his that I've joined.
Friday, June 29, 2018
The Catch 22 of Pickup
For those that don't get the reference, this term comes from a Joseph Heller book. In my case, every time I'm stuck in some sort of rut of not getting laid, which feels like forever right now, I feel like I'm caught in a Pickup Catch-22:
In order to have sex with a girl, I have to feel confident. To feel confident, I have to have sex with a girl.
I know that part of that really is a my problem right now. I remember two years ago, when I hooked up with that tall girl in Vegas that is the hottest girl I ever hooked up with, that I had so much confidence after that. I remember going out right after that and just seeing the hottest girls in the club and feeling confident as I approached them. I actually had a problem in that I ran shitty game in that I expected that I could just go up and be confident and I'd get the girl.
The point is that hooking up with a girl definitely can make me more confident.
I think, though, that my focus on this supposed Catch-22 is just me being negative. I can give a counterexample not even digging too far back into the memory banks. I had a quick pull around this time last year. I remember I opened this girl in front of Paris as Seagull was talking to a set. I recognized immediately that she was super high buying temperature and I started to lead her towards my hotel. I said we were getting drinks at Casino Royale but I ended up just stopping at the gift shop and Linq and taking her upstairs.
I just looked and I guess I posted about that as it was the girl Seagull and I shared. Anyway, after that I felt confident even though things got screwed up. It didn't translate the next day as I don't remember that burst of self confidence when we went to the club the next day.
The month of progress:
It's too easy for me to focus on the fact that I haven't actually been inside a girl since my return to the game and of course, I didn't get any for the months that I quit. Realistically, I think I am using it as an excuse to be negative. Sure, it's natural to take a little hit to the ego when I've seen Seagull get two quick pulls since I've been back, and I've also seen MMA pull twice.
I remember watching a video (I think it was a Tyler video), that basically says you have to make your own progress in the game.
While today, I didn't open as much as I would like, I guess the part of me that likes to be negative forgot how my first few days back was. I barely opened the first day I came back. It took a lot of soul searching and just pure determination to get me to the point where I was opening like the old days.
I think it'll be helpful to just list a few cool other experiences I've had to contrast that with my first few days back:
-I opened this tall blonde in our second AC Monday night at the Borgota club. There was no one on the dance floor at this time, and I dragged her out there and I got that dance floor started. I literally did. After I dragged her on, this couple that was standing near the dance floor got out there and then people started filling the dance floor.
I guess I forgot that I went from maybe half-ass opening 2-3 sets in a whole evening to being that fun party guy who gets the club going. I guess I forgot where I started this journey many years ago. I forgot that I used to be terrified of the dance floor and that I'd stand in the club all night staring a girls, and wishing I could even talk to girl.
-Early on, I was winging Seagull in this 2-set. This was just when I had begun to open a lot again and really give a good effort. It turns out I probably chose wrong as Seagull later said he thinks I had a decent chance to close the girl I was working in that 2-set. I just remember that she didn't seem that into me so when we walked into this other bar, I took an opportunity that presented itself. This larger girl was on the dance floor and I just grabbed her and started dancing. Even in my newbie mode, I realized she was ready to make out and we started making out. After a few mins, I lead her out of the bar. (Thinking back, I actually lead properly and didn't do debate game. When I'm wondering what to do in quick pull situations on the street, I need to remember in my head how I lead in this set and do the same.)
I ended up with a funny experience and I definitely made the wrong choice in that the girl ended up not being able to walk halfway to the taco place. She was too drunk. It worked out in that it's good I didn't get her back to my car as it would have sucked to have her get sick there. It worked out, as it was a good positive experience (up to the point that she got sick), and I had some confidence after that. Seagull had told me to leave her but I'm too nice. I stayed with her and she actually turned on me when this Uber driver that had been stalking us for like 30 minutes offered to drive her home. He let me take a pic of his driver's license so I let him drive her. I had even found her friends on facebook and messaged them the info. The one friend told me this girl's sister text her that this girl had made it home okay. That friend, not surprisingly, told me this wasn't the first time that girl had disappeared and been too drunk.
Anyway, this was basically a pull but it just got screwed up because the girl couldn't handle her liquor.
-I mentioned it in the previous post, but I should feel great about that Russian girl that didn't speak English. I remembered, at the time, that there was some RSD video about how eye contact, and body language are the most important, and that it's possible to game girls even if you can't speak to them. Whenever I'm wondering what to do in street game at the end of the night, I should think back to this set and how I used my eye contact and kino (and some hand motions) to create attraction and lead.
My negative side wants to focus on how I still haven't gotten laid, but this was a great interaction. It reinforced some crucial concepts that I need in the field. I shouldn't focus on how I didn't have sex with her and just focused on how I did enjoy making out with her and how the whole thing unfolded. I even have a pic with her as she wanted us to take a pic to remember the evening.
-I actually had a long Irish set that Seagull did the heavy lifting on. This was early in my return. If I had my game from just a few days later, I would have at least hooked up with this girl in red, and we both said I had a chance for a threesome if I had been a little more confident and/or experienced. It even crossed my mind at the time that the 3-some was the move but I didn't follow through.
It did remind me of how much I love the Irish accent on women. I remember we were playing beer pong and I loved how this blonde Irish girl sounded when she said, "Fuck" or say any other cuss words when she's mess up.
-That same night of the Russian girl, I had two decent prospects lined up at the club. (I loved having that club in the hotel as it had a liberal reentry policy. We could have drinks in the room to maintain our buzz without paying the high club drink prices. I also successfully used it three times over two different nights to get girls to come upstairs for a drink.
There are actually several other positive stories but I want to go to sleep and I think I've typed enough to change my negative attitude.
Realistically, I've had some good experiences and if I keep moving forward and trying my hardest, it's inevitable that I'm going to hook up with a girl. I have to accept that I'm going to have some nights that aren't as good (tonight and Wednesday). I have to stop being negative. If I'm feeling a little negative or self conscious at the bar/club, I need to take action, and then think about the cool moments I've had recently and in the past.
I surely am using this Catch-22 idea to be negative. Just because I took time off and I'm not pulling doesn't negate all the progress I've made over the years. It doesn't negate that I've hooked up with girls in the past. Learning pickup works: all the girls I ever dated or hooked up with after my first girlfriend were due to discovering this stuff and applying it.
If I'm positive, I'm more likely to actually close. MMA is probably right that success comes in waves. It should also make me feel better that he said he went out for 3 months prior to his current good run and didn't get any lays from cold approach (he said he was fortunate to have a regular girl at the time so at least he hooked up with her). Just because I haven't closed doesn't mean that I suck at this completely.
Staying in, Resisting the negativity
I can't believe I'm finally writing again. I basically took like 6 months off going out twice and really having shitty game and a poor outlook. Somehow, I took initiative to go out with Seagull just at the end of May and several days of going out consecutively brought my game back to a somewhat acceptable level.
Crazy AC stories:
There actually are some more interesting things to post about that I just didn't have the time to write about. Like last week, I stopped this Russian girl walking the opposite way in the hotel. With her barely understanding English, I got her to have pizza with me. With a little help from google translate, and Seagull distracting the friend, I made out with her in my room but she didn't want to have sex with me. Still was an interesting experience that warrants it's own post. The following night, I pushed hooker game farther that I probably thought possible. After pondering it overnight, I realized I could have gotten a little farther than I did. Basically, without paying, these two girls were letting me touch their tits and they both stroked my cock for like 5 seconds each. My friends that are willing to pay probably think I'm crazy for turning down the deal they were offering. They started at $300 each girl and by the time I was kicking them out, they were willing to go $100 for one girl, and I might have been able to talk that down even more. I just knew I wouldn't feel good about myself afterward so I passed.
Starting again:
Seagull and I had basically gamed for 3 weeks straight. It was a little rough going out with one of my new wings I met through Seagull: I'll call him MMA. He's fun to go out with and supportive. I think my issue is that I found it hard to transition after having Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday off. Wednesday was basically off as well. We went out and had less than three sets and I probably gave up too easily with this 2-set that had a friend that wasn't very responsive. In retrospect, that she didn't seen to be enjoying the bar probably meant she had some other interests: intellectual, sports, museums, or whatever and I should have tried that angle.
I just felt tired and in a shit mood all day. I waited in the bar for MMA drinking a $3 pitcher. I probably should have just started walking around and opening like I used to do back in the day. I used to force myself to open solo before meeting up with wings so I'd be warmed up.
Quitting too soon:
If I were to describe my sticking points, I'd probably say that I give up too easily sometimes. What happens is the girls aren't really busting me out, but it's not really on either. I'm supposed to keep talking as I can lead it somewhere but I often have just been giving up. I'd also say that I still have problems with kino escalation though I show moments of brilliance. Finally, at twilight, quick pull time, I was doing things totally wrong. Seagull has gotten really good at this which was messing with my ego for awhile. The good news is that it's forced me to work on that aspect of my game. I realized that I was trying to work those sets in the exact way that Julien describes as the wrong way: I was doing debate game with the girl, trying to convince her to go to the taco place or after hours instead of just leading.
Get back in there:
I think the epitome of my big problem was this tall girl set. There were three really tall girls (one girl told MMA that she was 6'3") and one guy. They were dancing up in this one area and I went up and starting dancing by them and sort of with this tall blonde. I quickly gave up and this guy that was watching said, "What are you doing? Go back, she likes you."
I went back and ultimately screwed up, but that just sticks with me. I know I do that a lot. I keep thinking about my failures but there are a bunch of times that I'm not even giving myself a chance. As I'm typing, I can think of two other sets that responded positively and I just gave up. One was this 3-set that even engaged MMA and I again after we just stood there not talking. Another was this redhead whose friends wanted to move to a different part of the bar. When this usually happens, the girl either just walks away or gives the soft, usual blowout of "it was nice meeting you." This one said, "My friend wants to go somewhere else. I'm just following her." I told MMA at the time that the way she said it made me feel like she wanted me to follow but couldn't leave her friends. I knew that the move was to follow, and the girl MMA was talking to seemed to like him. I missed a chance to lead. I mentioned this, and when MMA didn't agree to follow, I just gave up.
Bigger problem of not believing in myself:
On the drive home, I realized that I needed to write about tonight because maybe this is the way that I can get past this sticking point. Why am I leaving early? I'm sure part of it is the old ego protection problem. I'd rather take a small success and have my ego feel slightly validated then actually continue and possibly get laid.
I think the big part is I'm forgetting RSD Derek's little line of wisdom. Basically, he says that if I can't figure out why the girl should be with me, (I think he even goes as far as saying, if I can't figure out why she should be with me over all the other guys in the club), then how the hell should she know?
Yeah, as I type that and I remember as I was driving back, I recognize this is exactly my problem. Sure, I had a few good moments that I didn't even type about. For example, this tall, hot girl that I opened on the street seemed to like me and wanted to hang out with me, but the friend massively cockblocked and MMA couldn't even faze her.
Those moments of confidence were there (again, there was also the dance floor bit), but I have to admit they were fleeting. Most of the time, I would just go in and thinking back, I know that I wasn't going in really believe that it was going to work. I didn't go in, thinking about my good qualities and thinking "Yeah, of course this girl would want to meet me, talk to me, and ultimately hook up with me."
No. I think I did the exact opposite. I would look for the slightly sign to confirm that my game sucks and that I suck.
Crazy AC stories:
There actually are some more interesting things to post about that I just didn't have the time to write about. Like last week, I stopped this Russian girl walking the opposite way in the hotel. With her barely understanding English, I got her to have pizza with me. With a little help from google translate, and Seagull distracting the friend, I made out with her in my room but she didn't want to have sex with me. Still was an interesting experience that warrants it's own post. The following night, I pushed hooker game farther that I probably thought possible. After pondering it overnight, I realized I could have gotten a little farther than I did. Basically, without paying, these two girls were letting me touch their tits and they both stroked my cock for like 5 seconds each. My friends that are willing to pay probably think I'm crazy for turning down the deal they were offering. They started at $300 each girl and by the time I was kicking them out, they were willing to go $100 for one girl, and I might have been able to talk that down even more. I just knew I wouldn't feel good about myself afterward so I passed.
Starting again:
Seagull and I had basically gamed for 3 weeks straight. It was a little rough going out with one of my new wings I met through Seagull: I'll call him MMA. He's fun to go out with and supportive. I think my issue is that I found it hard to transition after having Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday off. Wednesday was basically off as well. We went out and had less than three sets and I probably gave up too easily with this 2-set that had a friend that wasn't very responsive. In retrospect, that she didn't seen to be enjoying the bar probably meant she had some other interests: intellectual, sports, museums, or whatever and I should have tried that angle.
I just felt tired and in a shit mood all day. I waited in the bar for MMA drinking a $3 pitcher. I probably should have just started walking around and opening like I used to do back in the day. I used to force myself to open solo before meeting up with wings so I'd be warmed up.
Quitting too soon:
If I were to describe my sticking points, I'd probably say that I give up too easily sometimes. What happens is the girls aren't really busting me out, but it's not really on either. I'm supposed to keep talking as I can lead it somewhere but I often have just been giving up. I'd also say that I still have problems with kino escalation though I show moments of brilliance. Finally, at twilight, quick pull time, I was doing things totally wrong. Seagull has gotten really good at this which was messing with my ego for awhile. The good news is that it's forced me to work on that aspect of my game. I realized that I was trying to work those sets in the exact way that Julien describes as the wrong way: I was doing debate game with the girl, trying to convince her to go to the taco place or after hours instead of just leading.
Get back in there:
I think the epitome of my big problem was this tall girl set. There were three really tall girls (one girl told MMA that she was 6'3") and one guy. They were dancing up in this one area and I went up and starting dancing by them and sort of with this tall blonde. I quickly gave up and this guy that was watching said, "What are you doing? Go back, she likes you."
I went back and ultimately screwed up, but that just sticks with me. I know I do that a lot. I keep thinking about my failures but there are a bunch of times that I'm not even giving myself a chance. As I'm typing, I can think of two other sets that responded positively and I just gave up. One was this 3-set that even engaged MMA and I again after we just stood there not talking. Another was this redhead whose friends wanted to move to a different part of the bar. When this usually happens, the girl either just walks away or gives the soft, usual blowout of "it was nice meeting you." This one said, "My friend wants to go somewhere else. I'm just following her." I told MMA at the time that the way she said it made me feel like she wanted me to follow but couldn't leave her friends. I knew that the move was to follow, and the girl MMA was talking to seemed to like him. I missed a chance to lead. I mentioned this, and when MMA didn't agree to follow, I just gave up.
Bigger problem of not believing in myself:
On the drive home, I realized that I needed to write about tonight because maybe this is the way that I can get past this sticking point. Why am I leaving early? I'm sure part of it is the old ego protection problem. I'd rather take a small success and have my ego feel slightly validated then actually continue and possibly get laid.
I think the big part is I'm forgetting RSD Derek's little line of wisdom. Basically, he says that if I can't figure out why the girl should be with me, (I think he even goes as far as saying, if I can't figure out why she should be with me over all the other guys in the club), then how the hell should she know?
Yeah, as I type that and I remember as I was driving back, I recognize this is exactly my problem. Sure, I had a few good moments that I didn't even type about. For example, this tall, hot girl that I opened on the street seemed to like me and wanted to hang out with me, but the friend massively cockblocked and MMA couldn't even faze her.
Those moments of confidence were there (again, there was also the dance floor bit), but I have to admit they were fleeting. Most of the time, I would just go in and thinking back, I know that I wasn't going in really believe that it was going to work. I didn't go in, thinking about my good qualities and thinking "Yeah, of course this girl would want to meet me, talk to me, and ultimately hook up with me."
No. I think I did the exact opposite. I would look for the slightly sign to confirm that my game sucks and that I suck.
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