Stay in and put the logistics in your favor

Tonight, I went out with MMA to where I used to go out every Friday and Saturday a few years ago.  I hadn't been there since early winter.  I picked up MMA on the way because I owed him a ride, and in the state I was in when I left, I wanted to stall and have someone to talk to during the ride in. 

The first spot is a place that I read actually lost its liquor license according to an article I read in the paper.  Apparently, the place got its license as an Italian restaurant and neighbors complained that it's really more a of club and they complained about the noise.  From what I remember, the alderman is trying to get it shut down and last I heard, the business was fighting to get a new license.  The place was busier than I expected: sure it was a holiday but many people have to work the next day.  It seems to still be doing well.  One change I did notice is that the waitresses no longer had the super skimpy bikini bottom type outfits and instead were wearing pants. 

I noticed the difference starting out not with Seagull and being completely sober.  I felt awkward at the beginning but I forced myself to open a bit, but MMA opened before me. 

I got opened?
I got opened.  MMA was outside having a smoke and I decided to sit in this chair that was next to the Jenga game while I messaged Seagull (who flaked out, which I actually expected considering we didn't go out in his neighborhood).  She asked me if I was playing the Jenga game.

I replied, "No" and then was about to just end the conversation but I decided to plow a little bit.  I think there's a decent chance that she just used the Jenga as an excuse to open me as I didn't see her playing after our conversation ended. 

To my credit, I gathered myself and tried to run it as a set involving a girl who opened me but I should have tried to stick it out more after she initially was ready to walk away after about a 1-2 minute conversation.

Free Beer:
Later in the same venue, I was standing next to MMA. This girl behind me kept bumping into me.  Sometimes, that happens and I think it's an IOI that I'm just ignoring.  It also often that the girl is just drunk.  As I type this, I think I should proceed as if the girl likes me and just try to open her when this happens and try to dance with her. 

When the girl bumped into me a third time, I decided to open her.  She was trying to drink this beer very fast, and I told her it was funny that she was trying to chug but doing a shitty job.  I told her that I could have drunk two beers in the time it took her to drink the quarter of a beer.  She then handed me the beer I guess as a challenge.  I debated if I wanted to drink this beer but I figured that the girl was cute, given the opportunity, I'd make out with her so why not chug it.  I then spun her around and danced with her a bit. 

She then walked back and I basically gave up.  I mentioned to MMA later that we should have tried to work her and her friend, but he said the after she danced with me, he saw her go back to this guy.  He thinks she was with the guy because he put his arms around her. 

All the signs of wanting to be pulled:
I recently watched some videos of signs the girl wants to go home with you. I can't say I remember them all, but I did notice some signs.  We went to this other bar, and I ended up opening this black girl who had this chubby friend who had huge breasts.  MMA wasn't really into her, and breasts aren't the feature that I'm naturally attracted to, but she was standing on this elevated area and my eye level when I looked over was in direct alignment with her breasts.  I found the site to be pleasing.

I started dancing and talking to my target.  She complied with the spinning and dancing and was answering my questions.  When I just let the silence permeate for a few seconds, she continued the conversation.  This happened 4-5 times.  I asked her the logistical questions and got a very favorable response.  She said they didn't really have plans after this and when I asked my usual, "Are you gonna stay out till 5am, when the sun comes up?" she replied in the affirmative.  I had mentioned that we were at another bar.  Later in the conversation, during one of the silences, she asked me if that other bar was within walking distance.  When I said, "Yes" she asked how many blocks.  Clearly, she was suggesting a venue change.

As I'm typing this, I realize that I should have taken that hint and moved the set.  I was just hoping that MMA would hook the friend, but when I looked over, I knew that it wasn't working.  Moving the two of them would have worked right then, and getting out of the club and walking to the other bar might have made things better with MMA and the friend.  Also, it's always good to enter another bar with girls with you and that could have made pulling easier.

Instead, I kept talking.  She also mentioned that not only didn't she have to work Thursday, but she made it clear that she was free until work at 5am Friday!

Ultimately, me not addressing the friend situation, caused the girls to leave. 

I walked around with MMA and then I said I was going to look for the girls.  I think I was protecting my ego as I did a half effort search.  Had they been in the search area, I would have seen them and opened again and tried at least a number close.  I didn't see them and rather than really search the bar and try again, I agreed to leave with MMA.

Try, try again:
I guess I learned from my mistake because I tried several times with this other black girl in the after hours place.  MMA had opened the friend.  I got out of state in the new venue as it felt like 10PM when we first entered.  The 2am bars hadn't closed yet so I got out of state waiting like 45 minutes for the bar to pickup.  I tried dancing and talking to MMA but when I keep seeing the same two sets and have no way to take action, I started to get out state.  MMA was actually pushing me to go back into the set with the friend and this girl that became my target.

They eventually walked by and I took that opportunity to open.  She actually didn't stop when I tried to stop her, so I walked the 10 feet to the bar and tried again.  She had a favorable response and I started dancing with her.  She was playing hard to get when I asked her what her name was as she replied, "Does it matter?"  She had a smile on her face and was into dancing with me.  I thought about what my female friend said about not treating the women as objects, so I really did want to know her name. 

We danced some more.  She started to grind her ass on my cock and I got hard.  She got weird after that and ended up walking away after about 30 seconds.  I opened her again and danced some more but I started to realize she might have been too drunk as I couldn't keep her attention.

She later went to the seating area and sat with some guys.  I wanted to go back in but it didn't seem good.  It wasn't until I saw her standing by the seated area, while her friend talked to some dude, that I tried again.  She was smiling when I opened her, but she kept giving me some shit tests.  I can't remember exactly what it was but she was giving me DTF eyes and smiling but wasn't complying with me trying to move her away.  I guess thinking back, I probably should have focused less on trying to move her away and just kept talking or trying to say silly stuff to pump her state.

Chump guy gaining confidence from me:
We hit this one last after hours place on the way to the car.  I saw this blonde sitting by herself by the window.  I opened her and she was really friendly and talkative.  I found out she was with this guy friend that she pointed out: he was ordering a drink at the time.  Just after that, another guy came up and grab her arms and said something like, "Come over here with me." 

I had her hooked so she said no and he walked away.  We actually had a good laugh about this and I should remember this when I lose in these tug of war situations.  She told me that she had noticed that particular guy staring at her for about an hour, and he never came to talk to her.  This was even when she was sitting there alone prior to me opening her. 

This was something that I've experienced more in the old days when I completely sucked.  It's happened a few times since I've been back, but I can only remember it being on the street when I wasn't even gaming my target properly.  What happened in all these situations is that the guy decide that they are better looking at me, and I figure they must tell themselves that if a fat, old, ugly guy like me can open this girl, then she would surely like them better than me.  They gain courage and approach. 

As I said, this happened a lot when I first started and I got to practice a lot of AMOG game.  I didn't even have to say anything to the guy this time as I had her hooked.  The good thing that I did was that I figured out who was actually with before the guy even came in.  I knew that she likely wasn't alone in the venue.

The guy came back and I got introduced to him.  She had to go to the bathroom and left her purse with the friend and I started talking to him. 

Option was to stick with the 2-set: gay guy friend and my target?
I realized after about 30 seconds that this guy friend was a gay guy.  I could just tell my his mannerisms.  On top of that, I knew he wasn't the boyfriend.  She had told me that she was here from California for work, and this was a guy friend.  Apparently, she had lived her for a year previously.

I know this girl was attracted to me.  The gay guy was cool with me.  I did see that the move was to stick in the set and just talk to both of them and see what happened.  My problem was that I drove with MMA.  I think we both realize that we should just drive separately as it makes pulling easier. 

It's debatable what the proper move was in this case.  I decided that I didn't want to force MMA to stick around for another hour and a half with a set that I wasn't sure I could even close.  I had debated the number close but I knew she wasn't in town for long. 

Thinking back, I think maybe I was just protecting my ego.  In retrospect, I should have kept talking to the gay guy until she returned and then just stayed in for a little longer and gathered more info.  Maybe she was staying until Sunday and I could have possibly met up again if I couldn't close tonight.  I could also have kino escalated a bit more when she was back and then seen if I had a chance to close tonight or not. 

Yeah, I guess this was a fuck up.  At the time, I really did think that my only option was to commit to staying with this set the whole night or not (there weren't really any other sets in the bar, and we had planned on going home after this bar).  Again, that was a false choice: leave or stay in till close.  I could have felt it out for 10-20 minutes and then made an informed decision.

I took the ego boost from the positive reaction and the AMOG attempt busting out instead of putting my ego on the line and risking rejection by staying in longer.  I have to recognize when I'm doing this in the future and force myself to try again. 

It seems like two good sets, I took the ego boost after facing some difficulty, and probably the one that I had the last chance with out of the three, I went in 3-4 times! 

I have to remember that sure, I could waste time staying in the set, but it's not like it was a Friday or Saturday when staying in meant that I was giving up the opportunity to hit a bunch of other sets up that may have been down for a quick pull.  These two that I didn't push to the end were good chances and there's always a risk that you waste time.  The ego gratification is stupid; had I persisted a little more, I might have gotten a lay.  No matter what,  I would have gotten some useful reference experiences.

I told Seagull that one of his blind spots is that he got too used to easy lays.  Jlaix called it being like Scorpion from Mortal Kombat.  During closing time and shortly after, it supposedly pretty easy to just go up to a bunch of girls and even say something a dumb as "Hey you, come here" and you might get lucky and find a girl who's DTF and just comes with you. 

I should try quick pull game at the end of the night, but I should also force myself to stay in sets that seem like they'll be more difficult as that's the only way to build that skill set.  Not all girls are going to be quick pulls and the ones I really want aren't always going to be down with Scorpion quick pulls. 

Stealing, AMOG's and trouble in the PUA House

I'm actually about to go out the door but I wanted to get in a quick post as I know if something more interesting happens tonight, I'm not going to want to take the time to write about this particular topic.

I was inspired by last night due to two reasons:

1) My wing got a girl stolen by his roommate at this PUA house
2) I was in this decent set that didn't work out on the street but then I had another chance at the bar but I didn't take it because I didn't want to deal with the guy friend.

Stealing:
I see that I'm learning lessons for free or cheaply from mistakes or situations my wings have found themselves in lately. 

Let me start by discussing literal stealing.  MMA pulled this girl last week that stole a bunch of hit stuff.  I'm going to get the full report today as I'm picking him up but I imagine he took her home and then fell asleep and she stole a bunch of shit. 

I've been thinking that the way my place is set up, this can happen to me.  I've finally taken some steps to prevent such a thing from happening but I'm not fully insulated yet.  The good news for me is that if I drive a girl here, I will be sober as I actually have to drive her and since I go to bed after the sun comes out, chances are that I'm not going to fall asleep before she does.  Still, I moved some valuables to another room and I'm going to hide my credit cards and gift cards.  Previously, that stuff was just lying around and a girl could have easily taken one and I wouldn't even notice it for a long time unless it was one of my primary cards. 

Another thing I can do is just to not girls stay over.  I remember that in a Derek interview, he says one key to hot girls is that you can't let them stay over the first night, as tempting as it might be.  Now, I've probably only pulled one girl that might fit into this category, but I should consider that strategy.  Briefly, the reason is that with super hot girls, every guy is going to try to have her stay over so you stand out when you're not so attached afterwards. 

Competing guys:
My lesson is that I should have gone into that set even though the guy friend or guy that's trying to hook up with her was there.  We opened this 4 girls basically in front of the PUA house.  My girl seemed into me and I thought about number closing (on a sidenote, I think I'm finally motivated to get on snapchat and instagram to help with game).  I heard one of my wings talk about the girls coming to the house for a quick shot.  They start walking away and they don't herd any of the girls.

I found out later that one wing was talking to a genuine lesbian and Seagull's girl wasn't into him and vice versa.  I guess I was the only one that thought the set was good.  I tried moving them to the house and one and possibly two girls were down but I couldn't move all four of them.  I hated that I was mistaken in the plan as it would have been more solid had I known my group didn't care about actually moving htis girl.

Fast forward about 40 minutes later, and I see this girl in another venue.  I had heard her telling her friends that they might go there so I wasn't entirely surprised.  It turns out this guy was talking to her when I found her and he seemed to talk to her the entire time.

Now, legitimately, I might not have wanted to go in and it's not for the reason some might think.  I actually talked about this with another wing that same night:  I know that whatever happens, even if it's the boyfriend, which it wasn't in this case, I'm confident I'll handle the situation and the chances of me getting into an actual fight are so tiny that it isn't even worth worrying about.  I've been in several confrontations in the past and I'm good at getting out of them.  The legitimate reason is that me losing to another guy is such a bad trigger for me that it would probably ruin my night (though maybe I'd get even more motivated for the future).  It also might have been likely I lose to this guy because she actually knew this guy enough to meet him at this bar. 

I should have gone in for the practice and that if I just go in casually, I might find out he's just a guy friend or maybe she'll just like me.  The reason for practice is that quality girls are always going to have orbiters around or just guys trying to hook up with them.  It's known that the hottest girls aren't just going to there by themselves or in an easy situation to pick them up.  Yeah it happens, and it's more likely in say Vegas or on their vacation, but even there, one should expect competing guys.

The only way I'm going to get comfortable dealing with that is to put myself in those situation.  My old wing that got married had told me about several situations with hot girls where he had to even get rid of dudes she also invited to meet her.  I remember that he told me that he hates having to do all that but he made himself do it.

Trouble in the PUA house:
Let me just end with this.  Seagull showed up at the house with a girl that was totally DTF.  I was there because I had stayed out with the roommate while Seagull had been working another girl.  He told us she might bring a friend but when she showed up alone, I just left.  I figured it was an easy close as she had even text him, "I'm not staying over" which is an obvious sign that she wants to hook up.

I woke up to a message this afternoon that apparently, his roommate had stolen the girl from him.  I wouldn't have imagined that being an outcome.  Yeah guys do that shit, and I used to try to do that on the streets (and I should work on that skill again).  Wings are not supposed to do that, and it's even worse when a roommate does that as it's going to be an ongoing situation.  It's worse when someone you trust does it because naturally, you'd talk up your friends rather than taking preventative steps to prevent the girl from being stolen. 

I guess I learned cheaply and I'll argue that Seagull learned a cheap lesson. This girl wasn't that hot and it's better it happened to him here rather than one that he really wanted.  The lesson was cheap for me as I was thinking I might hang out with the PUA house guys some more as Seagull will be busy for the next two months. 

Now, I'm  glad I found this out because I won't be going out with that wing even though I'm sure he'll say he was sorry and was drunk.  I'm also going to be proactive by making the rules clear with MMA as I relate to him what happened in a few minutes. 

I've been lucky to have wings that proactively try to help me and that would never steal a girl from me.  Nintendo, back in the day, got me a lay by having me bring tacos to his place a few years ago, for example.  Nintendo could have stolen girls from me because his game is better and he's just more confident in many ways but he never did so.  I've had positive experiences with my other wings I've gone out with, save one moment when three of us tried to pick up this one girl at the same time (and I think we learned from that debacle as one of those guys was a solid wing for me and even gave me a key to pull to his room in Vegas two Christmases ago when I was there with my mother). 

I'm also lucky this didn't happen to me as it really would have messed me up.  I've mentioned that losing a girl to another guy is like my worst trigger as it happened a lot when I sucked at game and it reminds me of how I never got girls when I was a total AFC.

I'll close by saying all of what I've written above just solidifies what Derek said in the video about developing yourself into that alpha dominant male who knows how to handle tough situations.  Again, the hottest girls are going to have the competing guys so I need to know this.  It's also just a better way to live life and I've seen that in just the improvements I've made within myself in this aspect of my personality.